Thin Places - Latest Comments

Re: Why I Am Pro-Choice by Ellen Painter Dollar

Republic1776 — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 00:22:25 -0000

Some propose that Numbers 5:11-31refers to God causing an abortion. The 2011 edition of the NIV mistakenly states that the drink will cause miscarriage in Numbers 5:21-22,27. However, this is not what the passage is talking about. Pregnancy is nowhere mentioned, or even hinted at, in the text. The only thing that even sounds like pregnancy is the guilty wife’s stomach becoming bloated, but even in that instance, it has nothing to do with pregnancy. Further, the passage does not say that drinking the concoction would cause an abortion/miscarriage. While drinking a poisonous mixture of ingredients could very well cause a miscarriage, that is not what this text is speaking of.

If a wife was found guilty, the punishment was death (Leviticus 20:10). If the wife was found innocent, she would be “cleared of guilt” and “able to have children” (Numbers 11:28). So, again,Numbers 5:11-31does not refer to abortion in any sense. Rather, it is describing a method that God allowed to be used to determine if a wife had committed adultery against her husband.

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

Joede — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:17:28 -0000

The negative portrait of downs syndrome is not inaccurate. Downs syndrome is associated with a dramatic increase in cardiac anomalies, a greater than 500 fold risk of developing acute and life-limiting haematological dyscrasias and their intellectual disability causes them to rely on the compassion of other people.

When considering the manner in which the human species treats those who cannot self-advocate, the frequency and severity of abuse experienced by the vulnerable members of society: the disabled and aged is to be expected.

The many face book sites promoting downs syndrome children as 'gifts from god' show photos of darling little children but deliberately omit to focus on the older downs people languishing in nursing homes or community houses where their grief from being separated from ageing parents and being thrust into the 'care' of staff who too often cannot meet their needs, or directly abuse them is further undermining these individuals' quality of life.

Right to 'life' at any cost is a distorted mind set which contributes to terrible suffering.
If only the human brain could efficiently replace indoctrinated information (generally sourced from primitive, illogical belief systems) with rational and empathetic analysis.

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

Valerie Lewis — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:54:02 -0000

Have any proof of this?

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

Valerie Lewis — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:42:29 -0000

That is a terrible thing to say. How can you call anyone a waste of space? You are totally rude!

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

Valerie Lewis — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:39:45 -0000

There are agencies that take care of adults with disabilities. You do not have to worry about abandoning your child when you die.

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

Valerie Lewis — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:33:35 -0000

To me you sound pretty intelligent. Can you tell me what genetic defect you have? I was born perfectly normal but I am made fun of every day of my life too. I know how words can hurt you. Some people are just real jerks. You have to find other friends. The book "Tounge Fu" helped me deal with the jerks of the world. But be careful, once you start using it, the jerks will go away because you won't be any fun to make fun of any longer. Once these mean people go away, you will find those that appreciate you for you.

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

Valerie Lewis — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:17:19 -0000

The blogger discriminated against a handicapped person when she had the abortion. In addition, she admits that it was late in her pregnancy which put herself at grave risk and tortured her baby. Nobody deserves to be murdered in a painful, gruesome death, especially by their own parents. This woman made a very bad choice and this choice should not be legal. Nobody has the right to decide who is and is not valuable. That is discrimination against the disabled and this has to stop!

Re: Thank you Patheos! (And Continuing the Conversation at Christianity Today)

Tim — Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:43:53 -0000

I am glad they recognize talent when they see it, AJ! The only downside of CT blogs is I haven't seen an option for subscribing to them.

Re: I Don’t Love Valentine’s Day, and That’s Okay

Jeff Bingham — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 08:34:14 -0000

You've captured my ambiguous feelings for the holiday exactly.

Re: My Questions About the Ethics of Embryo Selection

Aaron Cobb — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:29:49 -0000

Ellen (if I may),

Thank you for this reply. As a parent who has lost a child to a chromosomal abnormality (Trisomy 18), I can understand the impulse to protect our children from unnecessary suffering. I appreciate the way that you've framed that discussion. And I appreciate the analogy about our valuing of individuals with paralysis - the decision to screen-off embryos doesn't necessarily imply a negative attitude toward those who are already living with the conditions one is seeking to screen.

I want to think about this more, but it strikes me that the analogy limps when one looks at what screening off involves. If one holds that all human embryos are full members of the human species with the same inherent value as every other human being, then screening off (where this means ending the embryo's life) means protecting the embryo from a life with potential suffering by terminating the life. It seems that this would imply that there are some human beings for which it would be better for that human not to live than to live with suffering.

Granted all of this assumes that every living embryo has the same inherent value as every other living human being and I know that this is a big assumption.

I will continue to think more about these issues. Thank you for your response.

Re: I Tested and I Terminated and I Do Not Regret by Anonymous

EyesofOpinions — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:12:07 -0000

I am not even planning on kids yet, but I wouldn't even know how to take care of a child with special needs. And honest to god I am afraid I will have a child with mutated genes. Their would be a 50/50 chance of abortion. I don't want to do that but I wouldn't want my child to suffer or not go through certain expirences of life. I couldn't handle that. And to all of the mothers that can, God bless you. I envy your strength. And for the the women who wrote this I'm glad she gave us her story, not just one on how she doesn't want her child because of mutated genes but of because she doesn't want that child to suffer. This is every women's opinion. And it should be. Aborting isn't bad and it's not good. It's what you see it to be.

Re: I Don’t Love Valentine’s Day, and That’s Okay

Briana Meade — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:51:44 -0000

Valentines day is a bit hyped up, I admit. But one thing my own mother did really stuck with me: she wrote us notes on Valentines Day telling us how much she loved us and had seen us grow throughout the year. Now, whether or not it has to be on V-Day or another day, I have great memories of this.

Re: I Don’t Love Valentine’s Day, and That’s Okay

Tim — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:25:59 -0000

My wife and I had this discussion on the way to church yesterday:
Her: "Does it bother you that we don't do Valentine's Day?"
Me: "Nope. You?"
Her: "Nope."

Re: The Best Book About Writing Ever (and other great reads)

Jody — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:53:44 -0000

I gave the Ann Patchett book to two people for Christmas. I've read a bit of it and like it alot. Glad to hear it's available on audio. I thought of you and Penny today - I'm a nurse and helped care for an adorable 5 year old girl with Down Syndrome who had her tonsils out.

Re: My Questions About the Ethics of Embryo Selection

Censored — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 21:25:14 -0000

I think some medical definitions are in order to clear up questions.

> embryo destruction is the same as abortion

No. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. A pregnancy is defined as beginning at implantation, usually in the uterus, or it could implant in a Fallopian tube, and called an ectopic pregnancy. At any rate, before implantation there can be no abortion, because there is no pregnancy.

> is the same as infanticide

The problem with assigning personhood—usually by the religious because they say a "soul" begins at fertilization—is that these microscopic "people" are dying on sanitary napkins in bathroom trashcans. Why? Because most fertilized eggs do not implant and lead to a pregnancy.

If blastocyts in a lab are going to be counted as fully human with "souls," the problem isn't really technology, it's getting your own theological house in order first.

Baptisms, naming, and funerals are in order for these discarded human life "souls," if you want to define them as equivalent to any other human life. And if you're not going to treat embryos that are not implanted as "souls" in your bathroom, then why should a lab value embryos that are not implanted differently than you?

Mote, Beam and all that.

Re: My Questions About the Ethics of Embryo Selection

Aaron Cobb — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 19:53:55 -0000

Thanks for these reflections and thoughts. I agree that we need to think seriously about this technology.

I have a number of questions about this use of PGD. I'll keep it to just one here: does screening off embryos that have markers for disease and/or disability imply that these embryos do not have the same value as embryos that are free of these genetic markers?

Re: What do Down Syndrome, Abortion, and Baby Girls Have to do with One Another?

young mom — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:38:26 -0000

Screening tests give parents opportunity to choose! Not everyone is capable of accepting disabled children, or giving them all they need. Eugenics is just a malicious excuse for ditching people who made their own choice, just as you did yours. I'm quite sick of sour grapes-sweet lemon as a result of frustrations.

Re: What’s Your Favorite Spiritual Memoir? (and other reading notes)

Sarah — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:52:38 -0000

I recently read "The Search for God and Guiness." It's the story of how Mr. Guiness honored God by caring for the welfare of his workers and the lasting legacy that carried on after his death.

Re: My Questions About the Ethics of Embryo Selection

Tim — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:44:33 -0000

PGD and embryo selection is an area where I don't think hard and fast rules can apply; reading Ellen painter Dollar's book helped me see that even more clearly: http://timfall.wordpress.co...

Good job continuing the dialog, AJ.

Re: 7 Thoughts on How to Survive Another Snow Day (and maybe even enjoy it)

Censored — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 07:53:23 -0000

And #8, plug electricity into the tractor block heater the night before so the diesel engine starts in the morning. ;)

Re: 7 Thoughts on How to Survive Another Snow Day (and maybe even enjoy it)

Tim — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 19:41:45 -0000

Don't forget hot cocoa ... lots and lots of hot cocoa.

Re: 7 Thoughts on How to Survive Another Snow Day (and maybe even enjoy it)

Lindley — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 15:47:42 -0000

I love this! AND--I couldn't be more jealous! I think Memphis is the only place in the US that has NOT seen snow this year. ;) I am dying down here--and our boys are too! Please send snow our way! Glad you are soaking those days up!!

Re: Did I Come Home in a Box?

Tim — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 17:23:51 -0000

Happy Birthday to Marilee!

You are celebrating with one of our favorite meals, AJ: make-your-own-pizza. And our family has one of those birthday on birthdays, too. Our daughter was born on my wife's birthday. Some years they not only share the day with each other, but it also falls on Thanksgiving.

Re: Why I Am Pro-Choice by Ellen Painter Dollar

Tony — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 06:31:27 -0000

Saying you are a Christain and in favour of abortion is a total contradiction.
You are evil if you are in favour of murder in any kind and contrary to what many believe, abortion IS MURDER. Are you seriously going to tell Jesus when you die' oh yes I was a good Christian even though I believe that innocent life should be exterminated'! I am also a sinner but I know when I have sinned and I urge you to REPENT!!!!!

Re: Down Syndrome Research, Hope for My Daughter

Joede — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 05:00:03 -0000

DS is an abnormal condition which undermines the potential for an individual to experience an optimal quality of life. You write "there is nothing wrong with having this condition". Knowing what my beloved 52 year old sibling has had to contend with throughout his life, as a direct result of this condition causes me to believe the exact opposite. I wonder at the motivation and goal of your denial.